The Future of Newsvine and What it Means to You

I assume you're talking like digg?

I'm also concerned about the amount of spam that would come from the rise, and I doubt the Greenhouse would be able to cope... 15 people can't service 29 million effectively.

I'm talking about Digg, slashdot, and just about every popular blog on the internet. Newsvine has managed to keep the quality level pretty high despite its growth so far, but this deal may increase the readership by an order of magnitude. That may be difficult to manage. It just worries me.

Calvin:

Thanks for answering and for keeping this in mind. I'm glad you guys are considering this issue. If you need feedback on possible changes or need help from the community for part of the process, then I would be glad to contribute. This is the site I come to the most (by far), and I would very much like to keep it high-quality.

Adam, there might be a little more work for those of here right now, but I think if we just commit to using the tools we have, we can weed out most of them pretty quickly.

Adam @ 3.3:

this deal may increase the readership by an order of magnitude. That may be difficult to manage. It just worries me.

I wouldn't worry too much...I think we'll just see an significant increase in meta stuff as new users who deserve it get taken out to the woodshed. All the more reason to take steps system-wise to keep the meta stuff of the front page.

Maybe there should be a term added to the COH, saying any meta should be placed in a specific area. That way it's kept off the main page and people can @!$%# and moan about it all they want - A type of Greenhouse situation for the @!$%#y.

I think the need for moderators is upon us... unfortunately.

A type of Greenhouse situation for the @!$%#y.

The hen house? *smirk*

In other words, I'm afraid that stories will end up being flooded with so many low-class, insulting, and unintelligent comments that it will scare away the high-class, respectful users we have now.

I share that concern, too.

One of Newsvine's uniquely positive differentiating advantages until now has been how well comments have sustained the relatively high signal-to-noise ratio and integrity that seems to inevitably become an insurmountable challenge for other sites. Hopefully the spirit of community I appreciate here won't become another victim of bottom-dweller overrun.

Hurray, Calvin!

I am pretty happy right now to think that Adam thinks I am classy and respectful! ;-)

The answer to the meta stuff (and satire, comics, cooking recipes, etc.) is additional News Types, which is long overdue.

Glory be and hallelujah, it's about time ya'll listened! ...does this mean we're getting them? :)

and more importantly when are we gonna get them? The sooner, the better.

Will the news types mean more than just a word at the top of the article? Will they carry different weights in the algorithm?

I am doing a serious happy dance over this news types thing. You already know my opinion on the matter, Calvin, so I won't ramble on and on about it yet again. ;)

Yippee!!!

Calvin,

I am - in fact - a professional web developer.

I'm not saying... I'm just saying....

Calvin, well done! I notice that MSNBC has an extensive news video component to their site... do you invision more interactive media and video posts on Newsvine? Travel deals? shopping? other MSNBC features integrated in?

* big high five *

And tagging onto that, are we considered MSNBC writers?

Also, how will our stuff get on MSNBC? Will we have a special section, or will it just appear randomly? And will all the content go over (we don't want meta articles over there)?

Calvin,
You may want to expand the COH even more, to set rules and examples for new members.

Congratulations, by the way. I see nothing but good ahead for Newsvine.

Giving Newsviners greater access to cover events is something that is very important to us. Of course, this would represent a new model in the way of press credentials - so some research and planning is in order. But, yes, the goal is to get there.

So for example, does this mean there is potential for say a group like Gamevine to get on the ground at events like PAX for some exclusive content with the consent of Newsvine? Possibly flashing a Newsvine/MSNBC press pass or even jamming a green Newsvine placard in the rim of my fedora?

The intent to do so is more than enough to put a smile on my face. :) I'll look forward to hearing more about this.

More important....Can we go shopping at the Microsoft store now ? :-)

Many of the NYT Refugees are now a part of the family, and I think that their addition has strengthened Newsvine, even if they arrived in a ruckus. ;)

I agree and some are new favorites of mine as well, so we see it can transmogrify on a small scale. As long as the true commitment is to, what was your phrasing, "continue to be home to people like you, who prefer a certain flavor." then it will be a marvelous thing to know I can stay rooted and grow unchecked among my own kind, sweet fennel it may even be a good thing, trusting you boys has gone well so far and it's faith in you core players, nothing more that all that rests on.

In this case pd I think that you are right to be concerned but I really think it's a two edged sword and NV has the Sharp side, the Occam's razor side if you will, While it's never nice to be beaten with a blunt instrument, NV sets itself apart form other news services of this type by not actually being a news service but a news search engine. This gives it tremendous freedom and I doubt that msnbc will want to effect that. They also benefit from having access to NV remember because they can tap into international users at times when the USA is asleep, thus getting news faster or picking up stuff they may have missed. In a worse case scenario if oxygen or paladium software was active across the Windows users base, they still could not stop you from writing your own article. One thing I have noticed over the past few months is AP does not have the same control over content here at NV as it does at other sites it has acquired. Another thing with NV is that keeping it so simple it does not suffer from the types of hax that more script heavy sites do like the ones that use drupal.

Calvin, Pamela:

Is there not room on NV for more than one "certain flavor"?

(Thanks for the compliments) :^{)>

Jack, the spice you add is always going to have a role in the recipe, no doubt about it.

Ditto, Frank. Well said.

I can feel a middle-Viner complex starting already.

schnoo, just don't blow all your earnings on a new candy apple red sports car.

My total aforementioned earnings might get me a candy red sports car as a rental for a couple of days. If I use a discount coupon, my AAA membership, and pick it up locally to avoid airport taxes.

Oh, no!! Not New-New-Viners!! What will become of us original New-Viners?

I say we create a group just for us old Viners. Oh.. wow, I haven't been commenting on Newsvine enough lately. I've still been here but I was to lazy to log in and comment, lol
Yeah... Off topic... ignore me..... really.....

how about a group for lazy viners?

Ok, but hopefully everyone not to lazy to hit the "Join this group" button. See.. that would be a problem

If no one starts this within 3 days I will. I'm warning you!

The lazy Viners group or the original Viners group?

There's already an old-viners group.

And, I think if we look back over Newsvine's short history, we'd see that creating boundaries between "original Viners" and "new Viners," or rather, drawing a line between the two, only creates misery.

Lazy Viners, though? That'd be a good group.

Let me know if you make it!

I made it, but I'm to lazy to tell you about it

Well... I'm to lazy to reply to this nonsense.

Glad to hear it. I actually, upon reflection, trust you guys not to @!$%# this up. And I wouldn't say that to just anyone ;)

I think that should be a hallmark card for the "congratulation" category:

actually, upon reflection, trust you guys not to @!$%# this up. And I wouldn't say that to just anyone ;)

I think that should be a hallmark card for the "congratulation" category:

actually, upon reflection, trust you guys not to @!$%# this up. And I wouldn't say that to just anyone ;)

LOL, best post of the day.

Although I felt pessimistic about the news at first, I guess I feel a little cautiously optimistic now.

Brenda, it's normal for a big change to bring on anxiety and trepidation, but a little perspective will usually show that things are rarely as bad as they first seem.

I agree with Scoop, that should be a hallmark card.

Congratulations Calvin and all, I'm eager to see how this plays out over the long haul.

spiffie,

but a little perspective will usually show that things are rarely as bad as they first seem.

God I hope so. This news may require a medication adjustment for me (I'm only half kidding). It's always wonderful to see hard work and great ideas rewarded and I'm truly happy for the Newsvine founders. But at the same time I'm afraid of losing what attracted me and kept me here, which is the civility and remarkable intelligence and knowledge of most of the current users.

In the hierarchy of the hoi polloi, you guys are the greatest *sniff*.

trust you guys not to @!$%# this up.

Maybe that can be the name of the yacht Calvin and Mike buy with the money?

and Oluseye

when your famous don't drop me from your watch list

;-)

I'll break my piggy bank if you will, Jerry. ;)

there is probably still time for a hostile counterbid

I have $24.34 lying around

Hey, chill...

Not to mention that it was Calvin who came up with the Hot-Chicks tag. Almost seems like a pattern here...

Calvin is also so endearing when he tries to deny that he created the sexvine group for himself (and the guys)

Well done Calvin, you have worked hard for your success

There's a reason why I direct all reports of porn-spam I find in the Greenhouse directly to Calvin. ;)

We're all going to need to check the Greenhouse more often for objectionable material. You and a couple of others have done more than your share already, but I'm afraid you may be overwhelmed soon with a massive influx of new users. I'm going to try to spend more time there, and hopefully others here will as well.

BTW Viki, have you sent in your resume yet? I understand Newsvine is going to be hiring a few people, and I would think that you and Aine would be prime candidates. :^)

Just FYI... my email today has been extremely busy with new users joining my groups, people asking me questions, etc. This, after a relatively quiet few months... so yeah, I think we could use all the constructive help we can get. ;)

Heh. You know... I think I will, just for kicks. I could really use a job right now.

I feel like I'm the only one having very mixed feelings about this.

No, Aine, you're not.

I feel like I'm the only one having very mixed feelings about this.

Women's intuition, age and experience in this corporate culture does it Aine, you're not alone.

Same here:

I may be wrong in my mixed feelings, but I am concerned about corporate corruption and control

but if earnings are adjusted as some users wanted, that'll mean my seeding may not be worth my time.

Aine, or it could be the case that earnings go up. It's hard to say without knowing what Calvin was alluding to. I hope he brings out details sooner or later, or it's just going to fester.

But what I mean when I say that earnings could go up is that, even if the actual percentage is cut by some amount, we could be earning more (a lot more) because ad sales might instead be done through the MSNBC sales force. That could mean better ad rates and better total ad sales (less empty ad space across the site), so our articles and seeds might attract a great deal more revenue than they have before now.

I'm not saying it will be this way, but I've got to wait and see what the plan is first.

I'm not worried about earnings as much as everything in general.

Though I agree change is good, this announcement floored me, and not in a good way (which is why my brain is trying to scream "cautiously optimistic" in a less than convincing manner).

MSNBC can bring more exposure, but damn it, I'm just not convinced. I see future issues with copyright, and guess what, it's guaranteed more people will game the system.

And I'm just a little perplexed by this, though exposure can be a very good thing too.

Maybe I'm just a person who's more likely to sell his soul to the devil, but the only thing going through my mind is "more consistent site availability." :-)

Spiffie,

That could mean better ad rates and better total ad sales (less empty ad space across the site), so our articles and seeds might attract a great deal more revenue than they have before now.

I'm not saying it will be this way, but I've got to wait and see what the plan is first.

I must say you are wise beyond your years, for one so young.

Calvin, that is one of the nicest comments I could imagine. You don't know what your forthrightness means to all of us. Thanks for being there, still.

Ok, I admit it. The copyright issue freaks me out the most, and reading your comment, Calvin, eases my fears a bit.

I have VERY mixed feelings _

but IMHO - its time to congratulate the founders

PS Another acquistion

You lost me here:

Yes, the traffic will be better (or at least everyone seems to think so), but if earnings are adjusted as some users wanted, that'll mean my seeding may not be worth my time. Then, too, everyone's content is going to be just that much more competitive as to who

who is asking for this change and where did you see it referenced?

I don't remember what thread it was in or who said it. I just remember reading that someone suggested seeds be worth less than articles, like by about 50%.

Also, we'll finally have the resources and time to make improvements to the system so that the best content *does* find it to the front page, a front page that will enjoy much, much more traffic.

Calvin, this is good news. I don't care particularly the hows of this at the end of the day. as long as Newsvine does it. There is way too much good content in Newsvine to let it be shared with just a handful of people.

Oh I forgot who said it first but I DID agree that an article should be worth more than a seed due to the difference in time involved in writing an article versus a seed. But I admit I'm biased here. I'm thinking about, for example, an interview with an author for which I read the book, prepare interview questions, etc and it gets, generally, one or two comments. But I get email from authors and publicists aware of them so someone is reading it but not commenting.

So do I think that interview should be worth more than, say, a seed of someone else's interview with the same author? Yes.

Would I hope this be hashed out more and discussed more at some point before they make that change? Yes.

Thanks for the reassurance about copyright.

Calvin, a good question was raised here about whether MSNBC would try to squash or promote writing other than traditional journalism? If you can answer it there or here that'd be great.

That answer gave me more than I could hope for. I'm all a flutter (whatever that means) now.
Thanks.

What do "types" really do, though (functionally)?

Well, one thing they could do (and probably will, if they're going to update) is allow a module based on types -- or allow the front page to not show news of certain types -- or allow types to be filtered out of existing modules. Or, for types to be watched.

Calvin Tang
....much, much more traffic.

Does this mean I have to wait in line to vent?

Lol
Congradulations, Calvin!

Thank you, Jerry... I have no words. *wiping tears* ... I'm an emotional wreck right now.

Rock-a-bye?

No, hark the herald angels!

Get her a brandy and a blanket.
Everything indeed... will be alright.

Do the guys that bought us know what raving alcohol addicts we are?

-Dave

Do the guys that bought us know what raving alcohol addicts we are?

Now there's a reason to buy in, they couldn't get a vinemeet invitation any other way and it's the party they want

LOL

Actually, in my reading of various news reports about this acquisition... it is the ONLY acquisition msnbc.com has made in its 11 year history. This isn't like the typical corporate "gobble them up and make them disappear" strategy we've witnessed in the business world since the dot com bubble burst. It's also apparent that the reason they wanted to buy Newsvine is because of the value our content and voices (*unchanged*) would add to msnbc.com.

They like our recipe just the way it is. :)

Well I have to admit my first reaction was both shock and fear of the unknown. I've had time now to absorb what's happened, read up on it (gathering info helps dispel fear), and think about the possibilities for the future.

This seems to put Newsvine on more solid financial footing, so you guys won't have to be scrambling for funding, which means less $-worries-$ all the way around. Like I said in email, the money supporting the site and paying the expenses has been something I've had on my mind for about the last six months or so (worrying about it). Most people don't realize how much money it takes just to run a site like this... it's not like hosting a regular web site or blog that gets modest amounts of traffic. This site does not exist on a single server like most web sites out there. No average person could afford to pay the bills for a site like this out of pocket. So, even though I haven't said anything about it before, I have been worrying about what was going to happen when the Venture Capital runs out. :)

I also feel reassured that you guys (and msnbc.com) have no plans to make major changes to "the recipe" that currently works so well. That also worried me, since I had seen that kind of thing happen before with disastrous results. Talking it over via email eased my mind on that score, too.

The quote Reuters used may reflect that Aine.

MSNBC.com GM Charlie Tillinghast said he'd like to see some of Newsvine's features incorporated into MSNBC.com, though it's not yet clear which.

"We think that community is a cornerstone of Internet news going forward," Tillinghast said.

PS : We need Cagle's Cartoons on Newsvine (an msnbc.com-hosted feature). *hint hint*

hehehe

Calvin, your comments help assuage my apprehensions. It sounds like, from your comments, that MSNBC.com is genuinely interested in social news and developing it in a meaningful and beneficial way.

I am growing more and more excited.

By the way, congratulations, again. I don't think that could be said enough. :)

Anyone know who this wench is? She's not only ragging on Newsvine and our celebrating she's held up Lucky Dog as an example of, well her own words do it effectively enough to seem like a jilted lover.

Donna Bogatin ... Power to the people, so hails MSNBC and new Newsvine team in congratulating themselves on their "social thinking" about news. What is so social, though, about postings from user handles claiming "news" and spouting "opinion" under the cloak of anonymity.

In other "participatory journalism" words, who or what is actually participating at Newsvine?

"Citizen journalism"? What can anonymous Newsvine users be citizens of?

"Conversational news"? Who or what are actually conversing at Newsvine?

WHO REALLY KNOWS! At Newsvine, or at the myriad of power to the anonymous "people" so-called social news and consumer review sites prolifirating on the Web, where anything goes anonymously, often at the expense of other real people, publicly named.

I notice she disables comments, so no one can correct her. Oh well, she'd probably just delete anything we posted anyway.

She's a meaningless noisy fool.

Some of us actually do use real names...

Never heard of her.

Pamela,
@ 18.13

Obviously, the Federalist Papers are lost on her (which we all know were originally published anonymously). I just couldn't resist an insomniac dig. {grin}

BTW, somebody tell Mike D. that Anil Dash wants to meet him. :)

Now, he's somebody I've heard of. hehe

Maybe Donna Bogatin should investigate a bit before she rants. Sounds like someone has a case of sour grapes:

In addition to her blogging, Donna advises Internet companies on business planning and development.

Heh. Maybe Viki booted her out of the greenhouse and she's just mad she didn't make the cut.

She also claims (in another post) that Mike's John McCain Myspace prank was "illegal."

She's an idiot with an axe to grind -- it's that simple.

So, 2+2 = 5 and 'Newsvine is explicitly condoning and supporting the deliberate personal attack campaign of Newsvine user Pamela Drew against [her]'.

I think you got your math wrong here. The statement that you really wanted was "2 + blue = square" ;-)

Feel free to delete my last comment, I'll edit:

She also claims (in another post) that Mike's John McCain Myspace prank was "illegal."

She's wrong (misstates the facts) and she seems to have an axe to grind.

The question: Why is that?

"Wench" is a bad name? Maybe not entirely polite, perhaps, but there are worse ones out there. It's odd that she would pick out Pamela Drew when I think my comment was a bit more insulting. I feel strangely slighted. I don't understand where she's getting "anything goes" from. If she really thinks that she couldn't have possibly spent any length of time reading the content or threads. Her blog post regarding newsvine and the entire community of contributors was so insulting overall that I'm having a hard time understanding how she can justify complaing about "wench".

I'm relatively sorry I sent any traffic her way. It seems to me like it's just a ploy to drive traffic to her site. Generate controversy and watch the page hits pile up. Here that kind of behavior is disfavored by the CoH, but "out there" people can get away with anything. I say let her play on, with comments disabled, and soon enough she'll fade into obscurity.

(I think this qualifies as discussing her posts and not her as a person.)

I did think about the term wench before settling on it and the only reason was she had the top two google rankings in the msn newsvine merger search and both were factually inaccurate attacks at Mike D and Lucky Dog.

That was the most polite way of reflecting the character of what appears to be a well known blogger committing the crimes she seems to reserve for the body of anonomous posters here.

Sorry, if I'm the first to return fire to the blogosphere but when people promote false information about something that has value to me there's not much chance I'll bite my tongue. See remarks about the Irish temper in Scott-Scoop introductions.

She's free to dislike anything and everything but check the facts or expect to be called on the errors.

ps Calvin I never considered it could be a real downer landing on you, sorry for that fallout.

Nor should it have been. If she had a problem with something someone here said, she should have taken it up with that person.

Not even 24 hours with a corporate umbrella over me and already making friends! *smirk*

Not even 24 hours with a corporate umbrella over me and already making friends! *smirk*

Wenchette :)

Wenchette :)

Pamela loves it when you speak French to here;

******
Slightly ironic that someone that doesn't use an anonymous handle was the one called out.

Oh too true Chill

@Calvin Welcome her to web 2.0

Ofcourse to the high brow users web 2.0 is a forum to promote the free flow of information and to bring peoples of different countries, race's and religions together to have serious discussions and exchange idea's for the betterment of the whole world.

To the great unwashed masses we know what it is really for, an excuse to engage in anonymous name dropping, personal attacks, racial sledging and religious vilification.

What surprises me however is that someone like Donna Bogatin who has climbed the corporate ladder of msnbc (presumably on her own merits) would Wilt like a Flower in the face of some rather mild peer review. Surly she has better adversaries in her own backyard.

Wenchette :) that is cute add a glass of champagne and an accent, ooo la la...

ISPY...Surly she has better adversaries in her own backyard.

There are none better than the viners, tsk tsk!! If she'd done her homework she would have known that anyone and everyone tossing around bad claims and wrong information is getting called out here in a NY minute. That's our democratic system of fact checking, where comments are allowed.

Worse her facts were not only very wrong, but easy to find accurate info. Nice to see how the salaried folks set the bar for themselves. Some may use invented names but we don't invent facts say whatever comes to mind and block comments. Guess that's a pro for you??

If she'd gotten the story about Mike D and McCain even close to right and not launched into name calling with the bad info she may have had a prayer of making friends here. Now she's out of the gate with a bad record.

Some of us know what happens to ladies who make baseless attacks on fellow viners, bring it on!

Slightly off-topic, yet related: This is one reason why I would like to see both pinging and trackbacks added to our Write Article screen. Pinging would allow notification to several different web services (technorati, weblogs.com, pingomatic actually notifies them all), and trackbacks would notify blogs and some newspaper sites when something had been said (with a link) about something they wrote/published.

Elliot, it sounds like they're keeping Google, at least for now:

For its part, msnbc.com will integrate Newsvine mainly at the story level, Tillinghast said, promoting Newsvine links "on stories that might stimulate a lot of community activity," such as political articles.

Likewise, he said, while msnbc.com would probably "take a look at" Newsvine's use of Google as part of its search function, it was not likely to impose a switch to Microsoft's Live Search. "Consistent with their independence ... we're not going to impose orthodoxy," he said.

Very good points, Festive Warrior, and I am sure there will be lots of reassurances on those lines. But the problem with such issues, when the euphoria dies down, is that they have their own momentum which only reveal themselves much later on when the dust is settled, and when least expected, and not at the beginning. Should be very interesting to see.